Ok, I was a girl in middle school not so very long ago, and I never once took a shower after gym. No one did, because pre-teen girls simply don’t sweat in gym. I don’t know what locker-room films you’ve been watching, but a real middle-school locker room is a tremendously unexciting place. Not one single girl in that room was ever naked for even a split second. We were mostly wearing fruit of the loom underwear and training bras held up with safety pins, and hiding even that much, quite successfully I might add, from our schoolmates, lesbian or no. Your complete lack of understanding of pre-teen girls locker room culture is clear from your comment that Ashly was “disappointed” not to be able to watch. There’s really nothing that interesting to see, and it’s clear from other articles on this issue that what she was “disappointed” about was being put on display as a sex offender when she had done absolutely nothing wrong. That’s the Girls’ room, not the Straight Girls’ Room. Are they going to ban her from the bathrooms and make her pee in the quad? Please.

I promise you, this girl is going to catch enough grief in middle school without being the cause of a tax override to build special Ashly-proof locker rooms.

Interesting viewpoint there “whaaaa.” I agree that Ashly is going to have far greater problems navigating the teenage life. But I think Cos has come up with a nice solution here.

What bothers me is that this issue arose in the first place. Should anyone in middle school really be all that sexually active anyway? How can she know that she is a lesbian? And even if she is, is she that active that she is strutting her sexual attitudes on front of everyone?

Honestly, I just don’t get it.

Whaaa?,
While it’s possible to think I meant Ashly was “disappointed” not to be able to watch, that’s not what the content said. You are correct in saying that Ashly was disappointed because she was removed from class. And that is what the article intended to convey.

However, I read nothing that claimed Ashly was put on display as a “sex offender.” And I think that was clear by saying, “In fact, she might be the most controlled individual on the planet and, with all her being, rush to get out of the locker room so as to prevent anyone from thinking she might look.” That comes from both the fact that there was never any suggestion of Ashly sexually offending anyone, and my knowledge of lesbians, which I do know a little something about.

What’s more, the issue I discussed in the article was not what was or wasn’t being seen, but the fact that girls claimed to be uncomfortable from the possibility of being seen. Complete lack of understanding of a teenage girls’ lockerroom not withstanding, those were the facts as stated in any number of articles and radio programs.

In addition, considering your ample knowledge of locker rooms, you probably also know that the majority of bathrooms in existence use the stall format already. This means there would be no need to ban anyone from the bathroom — not that I ever intimated such a step should be taken. My solution merely suggested that the school take the same approach in the locker room. Most college lockerrooms do it. Some up-to-date schools do it. And I don’t think the upgrade would require a new school levy.

But in the end, you’re right about one thing. Ashly is going to catch grief. From what I understand, she was already catching said grief, which is how the administration learned she was gay in the first place.

And by the way, there are some teenage girls who sweat. While I spent very little time in the girls’ lockerroom, I did spend some time in a middle school gym class. Apparently your gym class spent its 45 minutes playing tiddly winks and discussing your PowerPuff Girls underroos.

lesbians in middle school. if i was able to hold hands with a girl in middle school, that was a pretty damn good day. the thought of sexually active middle schoolers mistifies me. i feel sorry for kids today who have to deal with all this extra drama in thier lives. do they not just enjoy being kids with zero responsibility? do they not realize they have the rest of thier lives, to experience situations like this?

The greatest question raised here (raised by Cos) is, does ashly want a solution, or cash? just once, when somebody has a problem with something, be it feeling discriminated against, or burned by hot coffee that you spilled on yourself, or any other law suit for that matter, i would love to see the “victim” (and i use the term loosley) not ask for a cent, rather offer up a solution and see it through.

Actually, it was badminton and Hello Kitty, but yeah, pretty much.

Ashly was told to go sit in the Principal’s office during gym. As far as I recall, it was never possible to be sent to the Principal’s office without everyone knowing, and knowing why, which is why I suggested that she was being put on display as a sex offender: the obvious conclusion for all her classmates to draw is that she is a dangerous individual. Might be true. Probably isn’t. I was kidding about peeing in the quad, but I think the point is fair: changing rooms are divided up by gender, not by any other requirement. There were plenty of girls I didn’t want to change in front of, mostly because they had boobs and I didn’t or they made fun of my Hello Kitty underroos, but I just had to find a way around it. If this girl is sexually harassing someone, that should absolutely be dealt with, but otherwise she has every right to be there and anyone who has an issue with her should go change in the bathroom stall which, as you correctly point out, is already private. Problem solved.

As for being sexually active, Taranis & pstech: you don’t have to be active in any way to have a clue about your sexual orientation: didn’t you know whose hand you wanted to hold before that person let you? Just like being straight, being a lesbian isn’t about what you DO, it’s about who you are. Also haircuts.

Minor point, though, compared to the cash: I don’t know. If I had been treated so shabbily, I might want some cash, too. Mostly she probably just wants all this to go away so she can have a normal teenager-hood, but I guess she shouldn’t hold her breath for that one, huh?

I guess whaaaa has a point about not having to be sexually active to have a clue about sexual orientation. But a clue is a lot different than certainty. I wonder how certain a person can be at the age of 15…

Well, how certain were you? I mean, I think I understand what you mean: people go through phases, especially in the teen years, and it may be that this girl is in one of those phases. But this sounds like an awfully huge and upsetting process to go through if you’re not sure. I think I’ve heard of studies that suggest that the number of truly bisexual people is pretty low, and that most of us are pretty much one or the other (occasional drunken behavior at parties notwithstanding.) I’ve had friends who knew they were gay (even if they didn’t know the word for it) by the time they were five years old: if you’re thinking that you want to marry Suzy and not Bobby when you grow up, or vice versa, that’s a pretty definite clue. I have absolutely no data to back this up, of course, but it would seem to me that the younger you are when you figure these things out, the more likely they are to be accurate. Late teens, early twenties, you can talk yourself into almost anything. (I speak from embarassing personal experience, into which I shall not delve…)

Anyway, the point is sort of moot from a civil liberties perspective: whether she is actually gay or not, she was treated poorly because everyone thought she was gay. And that ain’t kosher.

No possible way does a middle school child have a clue what their sexual preferences will be. This is just another silly lawsuit brought on by the stupid behavior of the school. Just ignore it, she is/was just seeking attention.

It’s another silly lawsuit because it’s a California kid…need I say more? “Let’s see how much attention or money I/my parents can get.” 15 year old lesbian?…gimme a BREAK!!

Boy, some of you people are cruel! You’re saying “she can’t know for sure she’s gay” and acting like she’s just trying to get attention and/or cash … Doesn’t it register with you that this girl was told that she was not permitted to participate in gym class? That she was sent to the principal’s office for a week and a half? You say she shouldn’t sue, but what should she do? She and her family protested the treatment and were told that nothing was going to change. She’s being singled out and humiliated … I don’t think that’s an overstatement if anyone can remember what it’s like to be sent to the principal (on a daily basis) or being told that you’re not permitted to participate in a particular class. How can you suggest she’s out to make a quick buck? Do you think she just said she was gay in the hopes that someone would discriminate against her? Yeah, that makes sense, doesn’t it.
And Cosbysweater, as a couple of other people have said here, just because she identifies herself as lesbian doesn’t mean she’s sexually active. You say “how can she know that at 15?” Well, I’m guessing at 15 you had a pretty good idea who you were attracted to. Why do you think that this girl doesn’t as well?
All of you people — jewels and bruinwar and pstech and whoever else — who are suggesting that this girl has ulterior motives … man, you people are cold.
Why do so many people fear anyone who’s different?

Yea right.. seperate showers???

Get over it. Nobody is going to stand around a middel school shower checking each other out. Quit being a baby and get over it. These are teenagers, not china glasses. They won’t be scared for life, they will deal with it.

The coach was a first calss dumbass

that is a good-okkkkkkkkkk story- but keep in mind about the kind of things. Please e-mail me at KellieScout2003@aol.com

I actually went to school at the same school, and (this is no rumor) My gym teacher was a lesbian. She use to make us girls line up and take off our towels and one by one spin around in front of her to see if we were “wet”. No one made her sit in any office. It would be interesting to know if this is the same teacher. Wouldn’t that be a sick twist. Good luck Ashley.

Heather, tell us more about this “wet” thing. Pictures, or it didn’t happen.

When I hear people say, “she’s can’t know for sure she’s gay” I like to reply with, “how do you know you’re straight?”

When did you choose to be straight? If you’re like me, it was never a choice you made, it’s just what you are. So why do people assume that being gay is a choice?

im just curious how a 15 year old is an eighth grader! As far as I know, MOST kids turn 15 in either their sophomore or junior year in high school.

As for her being a lesbian, you know what, she’s going to have to deal with a lot more discrimination in her lifetime than being kicked out of gym class. Is it right? probably not. But honey, if you have a taste for the clam, better get used to being shunned.

I think it is wrong that she was so humiliated in front of her peers, and I think the gym teacher shouldn’t have done that. I am only 13 and I don’t know my sexuality, I used to fancy boys but now I don’t maybe that’s because I used to go to a mixed school and now I go to all girls? I don’t know but still even if I don’t know mine it doesn’t mean that she couldn’t have known hers. Just don’t discriminate people who are different from the “norm”.

ok! here’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth! firstly, the girl was SO OPEN about her pre-mature choice to program herself to become lesbian by following a line of 15 year old hormone pendulum induced “logic” (if you can call it that), that other teens began talking about her “sexuality” - and you know how teens can talk. i can imagine how scared other parents much have gotten thinking that this line of “logic” might be spread to their children who have been raised to look between their legs to see what mother nature has to say about their sexuality. the answer is right there, if any of you need to check we musn’t forget that although these are emotional issues, true logic and mother nature can help us see peace with it. i believe that being attracted to the same sex is natural for a heterosexual - it how we should determine how we represent ourselves to the opposite sex.. but that’s another story and the subject of another 20 someodd years of research i haven’t studied yet.

I really did go to that school, and yes the P.E. teacher is a lesbian, no pics to prove it but 25 witnesses can’t be wrong.

Dear Group, How can you all be so cold-hearted towards this lesbian girls feelings? Sure, there may be a minor issue about lesbians in the locker rooms, blah blah, what we really want to know is if she got any action in there! I reckon the major reason the teacher felt she had to ban the girl, was because she is also a lesbian and was jealous that the girl got to perve on the hot bods of all the other girls. The only way they can resolve this issue is for them to have sex with each other AND the principal. Then, I think you will find, the 70’s end credit porno music with que, and we wont hear another thing about it.

I thought that these days we had gotten over discriminating against people?! Correct me if i am wrong, but i always thought that every person has the right to be who they are and should never have to be something that they are not. Okay so this 15 year old girl says that she is a lesbian. Well i tell you what. I am a 17 year old girl and i am straight. What is the difference? No one should be ostracised here! I know there are still issues about lesbians and gays but we really need to GET OVER IT! It is a part of our every day lives and we can’t run away from it. If we concentrate on the age of the girl, many of us can understand what it is like to have an interest in the same sex and opposite sex. Children these ages change their minds constantly. Until we are older will we learn what we really need and want.

I really feel that there is not enough information posted here. Does it state that the other girls in the locker rooms are actually offended by this? This poor girl will have a hard enough time later on in life, especially teenage life. Life is far from easy and she will definately experience it. Why put her into it all now? If this girl really is a lesbian, then let her be. If its not causing anyone else harm then who needs to make an issue out of it.

And to Andrew Wares’ comments. GROW UP or GET SOME PORN!

Dear Group…AND Tammy,
I take it Tammy, you have never killed a man with your bare hands, and this is why you can’t understand the problem here. There is never a clear black and white solution to any argument, yet, you have alloted right and wrong into two easily defined compartments. In practice, I can see how your scope of the conundrum is almost justified, however, the possible ramifications of your proposal are completely unsought. It is all good and merry for you to preach ‘tolerance’ and ‘respect’ but is your ass on the line if someone is injured or sexually abused by this gross negligence? The teacher did the right thing with the time and patience they had available. It is easy for us to standby with our coffees at the computer screen and really test the morality of each issue, the Teacher in question was undoubtably without this privilege. The point of this thread is to find and discuss answers to the problem, not state how “wrong” this teacher was and lecture the rest of us how we should be more tolerent. Maybe we can excuse Tammy, because, as she told us herself, she is only young and really doesn’t know what she needs or wants.

dear andrew,

YOU ARE JEALOUS OF ME BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE AS GREAT AS ME!

hahahah
take that you undersized bum head!

hehe luv u hun

Dear Ms Tammy, I am a backwards country lesbian from Australia. I am the lucky sister of Mr Andrew Ware and through reading his comments in referance to lesbian pron I have discovered that you are quite stupid and have no sense of humour. However, I do take pity on you as you are obviously american and therefore hve no sense of irony or satire (yes big words I know). I am sure i will cop masive amounts of abuse from your pcness but I am a psychopath and have no emotional feelings towards any of you. GET A SENSE OF HUMOUR or GET LAID!!

ME AND UR BROTHER ARE MADLY IN LOVE THANKYOU!
so take that

hello, i am lexie ware-freewaters, and i am the result of a test tube pregnancy, performed with my mum, emma ware, and my other mum, josie lee freewaters. I love my mums, and i know that the only reason i am in this world is becasue they WERE allowed into the female locker rooms at school. isnt that great? i think its great…yes…great, becasue i am great, and the world is greater with ppl like me in it, so stop dissing lesbias coz they are great, and i am great. great.

Dear Group including Tammy and Emma “Ware”
we are all here to discuss the theme of homosexuality, exept it appears mrs Emma Chees, i mean Ware, has only racial discrimination against Americans to post, hence building on the strong reputation of Australians being racist C*nts, thanks Emma!, and i of course know that u will not take anything i have said in offense because obviously, u have a sense of humor, and have been raped many a pleasant time, oh and on the sensitive subject of homosexuality, and how we cannot spend the new era running away from it, I once was sitting on a bench in a park and this guy came up and told me he was gay, so i was like…WHATEVER

oh, by the way…to all u people out there, when i grow up, im going to be just like my mums, a lesbian…isnt that great??!!

oh and hi uncy andrew

Much as your love triangle amuses me Tammy, Andrew and Emma, i fail to understand why you have not adressed the main concerns of the author, Cosbysweaters, topic. The question raised was what could the Gym teacher do in the specific situation, and the answer is simple. I have been brought up in a shed, in which my family of 7 choose to reside. We are constantly viewing each other naked due to the small volume of living space, and there is no doubt about it, we are turned on by each others naked bodies. However, you dont see us propergating, copulating, and commiting various sexual acts, simply due to the situation we are placed in. This can be directly applied to this american girls situation. The lesbo might get turned on by other naked chiks, tits bouncing all over the place etc, but this is natural. all chiks are a bit bi, and these sexual tensions happen all the time. are u retarded? just because one chik is more attraced to girls than the others doesnt mean you should refuse her access to that hot action in the showers. I myself learn alot more in the school showers than in the class room hee hee

Much as your love triangle amuses me Tammy, Andrew and Emma, i fail to understand why you have not adressed the main concerns of the author, Cosbysweaters, topic. The question raised was what could the Gym teacher do in the specific situation, and the answer is simple. I have been brought up in a shed, in which my family of 7 choose to reside. We are constantly viewing each other naked due to the small volume of living space, and there is no doubt about it, we are turned on by each others naked bodies. However, you dont see us propergating, copulating, and commiting various sexual acts, simply due to the situation we are placed in. This can be directly applied to this american girls situation. The lesbo might get turned on by other naked chiks, tits bouncing all over the place etc, but this is natural. all chiks are a bit bi, and these sexual tensions happen all the time. are u retarded? just because one chik is more attraced to girls than the others doesnt mean you should refuse her access to that hot action in the showers. I myself learn alot more in the school showers than in the class room hee hee

luke barrett u need to come to your senses. i mean really it is not a love triangle, its a square. hehe

Good points Luke… i hope your family is well by the way, I have to agree with all your points presented, what i question is, are we being given the full story, we are told that this ashly chik is moved AFTER the teacher heard she was a total dyke, we are not informed of any other action in between though, i find if difficult to beleive that an intelligent adult would beleive a “gay”(heh heh) little rumour from some immature year 8 hoes that “ashly is a lemon, miss” is it not possible that ashly, who feared being removed from the class because of this, made a sexual pass at the teacher to “bribe” her wait out of a possible detention, it is impossible to judge what could have happened,maybe something hot and steemy occured in the changing room that the teacher.. “walked in on”, this topic leaves so many holes of discussion, i made a vote to our principal when i was in year 8 to reconstitude the rule of dis-allowing video cameras inside gym rooms, and because it was not amended, look at what can now happen.

a square has three sides, equivalant to people. unless there are more variables/people, or for fuckwits like u, “sides” it cannot be a square. is mitch or lexie included? if so our polygon would morph from a triangle to a square, or even an incredible complicated 5 sided pentagon.

sorry about that, a square has 4 sides, contrary to popular opinion.

and, i meant 2 say triangle. my mistakes cannot be blamed on my, but due to the multiple cranium injuries i have recieved from stackin this 2 metre drop off my rood the other day on my hardtail tredly

As I understand it, a homosexual is someone who is sexually attracted to members of the same gender. While there is no assurance that Ashly would leer or lust for another girl in the shower or locker room, there is no guarantee she wouldn’t either. The ACLU, the homosexual rights groups, and the court focused on Ashly’s rights and ignored the rights of the other girls who were uncomfortable being in a state of undress in her presence. Many of the commentators in this forum minimized the concerns of Ashly’s classmates by saying that sexual attraction is a non-issue at this age. Well then, the school can save considerable money by combining the male and female locker rooms and showers into one facility. Modesty and privacy are clearly unimportant at that age according to these luminaries. This absurd ruling is another powerful argument for home schooling one’s children.

Hi guys,
I am 15 years old and member of a public school, so I do not only have sports with other boys and girls, but also sleep in one room with two other girls. I have not yet made any sexual experiance but I fell in love most havily in various occasions. When I was nine years old I fell in love with an incredible beautiful, gentle, smart, lovely, oh I can’t discribe her, actress, who I met because my parents worked for fox (TV-Channel). You might not believe me, but I did fall in love so much. I drove to the fox studios nearly every day only to see her for a split second, and of course I didn’t tell anyone. In fact I didn’t tell anyone till this very moment, and I only do so now, because I’m really shocked and offended.
1. I always knew I was going to be, well what I am. I always knew it! Always!!! I loved to watch certain women brush there hair. I aleays loved female hands they are so soft and beautiful and well…
2. I don’t think it was right that Ashley was not allowed to join the other girls in the locker. I think that she was punished for what she is not for what she did, and that is wrong.
3. Her youth is certainly really complicated and I think if she told everybody that she is a lesbian than she has a lot of courage, for a girl in her age and more then I have certainly.
4. All you guys who talk about this subject so easily, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. being gay is still a very complicated subject. And you shouldn’t think in stereotypes. As I said I allways knew I preferred women to men, my father found out that he prefered men whaen he was 34.

I think thats all I have to say at the moment, and it is rather a lot isnt it!
Well anyway…

Yours Elizabeth

whats with sexualities anyway.
do u know that humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure?
well who ever heard of a gay dolphin, and do dolphins sue eachother? no.
so why dont we all learn something from these dolphins and maybe get some perspective.
i mean, there are millions of starving people in the world, and we are sitting here in front of a computer screen with our boxes of tiny teddies arguing about sexualities. i think a starving person wouldnt care about any of this, thed be willing to eat anyone! even a gay person!
anyway, i hope u get my drift.

Well, Lexie I wouldn’t be so sure about dolphin sexuality. I once knew a male gay rabbit though I don’t know if phisically dolphins have the chance to become gay. I must certainly check on that one. Anyway I don’t agree with you. I don’t think that starving ppl anywhere in the third world or just next block should be your only concern. Of course you shoul know that ppl out there are really in truble and you should try to help them but that shouldn’t stop you from living and worrying about your problems.
And by the way humans are (probably) the only beings capable of love and for me this whole homosexuallity issue is much more about love then really about plain sex.

i dont get how someone could be so hateful about this.they go around telling us its a free country,but once they find out a little bit of truth,they blow it out of porportion.so the girl was a lesbian,big deal,so am I,its her choice,right?atleast it should be…and they act like all that happened was we woke up one morning and decided to be a lesbian.I may only be 15,but i know the rights everyone should have and discriminating someone for being a lesbian should not be one…

look elizabeth. i dont care weathere you agree with me or not! i know for a fact that a dolphin is a beautiful and serense creature. im sick of you discriminationg against them like they are just a toy that you will grow out of and throw awawy. you should not tamper with other peoples bodys. and being gay isd ok. but not starving ok okopk!

Re comments by Lexie Ware-Freewaters, Luke Barrett, Mitch Jenkin, Emma Ware, ‘Tammy’, and Andrew Ware: I find you all absurdly crude and shall not be visiting this site again. The very fact that you are using this poor, young, (and in all probability) hot-bodied girl’s plight as an excuse to vent your obnoxiousness repulses me. In the future I shall limit my porn-finding to explicit movies such as “Kate and Leopold” featuring Meg Ryan and Hugh Jackman (PG). Footnote: on further consideration, I don’t actually care about the girl. The fact that she is suing means she can’t suck it back and cop it on the chin as she should have.

What the heck are you talking abou, girl. I mean honestly. Dolphins are probably nice animals. However I read your article and mine three times trying to figure out what you were trying to tell me. I know for a fact that I am not a stupid person. Weird: yes, perverted: maybe, stupid: no. Still I couldn’t find one word that did anyhow discriminate dolphins. All I said was that I am not quite sure wether a dolphin can be gay. Gay as in homosexuall, I meant. And I was not sure because I think that there are no lesbian animals and the only faggish animals I ever knew were donkeys, horses (though not personal) and rabbits. My question was only about the physical parameters of dolphins. For I did not know. I checked it out and now I am pretty sure that dolphins can’t be homosexual for they have a very complex way of sexuallity that makes it nearly impossible. Though, I am not sure. If you know it, tell me. And about the starving people:
I do know there are people who need help. I know there are poor people in this world. I know there are starving and abused and sad and punished people in this world. And although I know all those horrible things I still HAVE to continue my own little life. I still have to ask myself which pasta to buy and wether to bring my stuff to the drycleaners to day or on monday. I still get annoyed whenever the remote control doesn’t work or my computer is freakin again. I HAVE to continue my life. Because if I don’t, I’ll die. I continue my life and try to help. I try to help a good friend of mine who has been raped by her father since she was FIVE and then became anorexic and now lives in a psychiatry. And you know what, if I stopped worrying about my own little problems I couldn’t help as much as I do. If I wouldn’t try to make a lot of money I couldn’t invest in the African Aids stock or stuff like that. So please don’t annoy me. I am not a horrible person. I am doing my damndest. Thank you.

look ELIZABETH or is thateven your real name! what was the point of that comment! we all know that YOU have some problem with this whole setup but did u even stop to think what all this is doing to others? NO! that is a SELFISH SELFISH way to be so why dont you just go and NOT BE SELFISH and eat a shell fish.

I think Ashly still shouldn’t be banned from gym class because other girls might feel uncomfortable that she is a lesbian. So she should try to arrange it where there won’t be any comfortablity and she is still able to take.